Comments on Somtow's World: Science and Myth: Avant le déluge

Thank you, James. But I still think it's more ...

2011-11-09T10:02:04.549+07:00

Thank you, James. But I still think it's more appropriate to stay "on-topic," especially when the topic is one as important for a nation as this one.
Regarding your theories, I don't delude myself that I can convince you with reasoned arguments, because you are starting out from a point of faith, which--I hope you would agree--is beyond reason. So I won't bother with the "holes" you suggest exist, and I certainly don't want to embark on a crusade here. But I'll reiterate something from Somtow's post: "Scientific creationism isn't, in the scientific sense, a theory, but a working backwards from faith using selective evidence." That's why it shouldn't be taught as science any more than the doctrine of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (http://www.venganza.org/) should be. Now I wouldn't want to see that taught in a science class, would you? Of course, in FSM Sunday School, it would be fine . . . .
I'm sitting here in Bangkok waiting to see if the flood will reach my own home. I'd rather wait till another time to get into a discussion of this, and then only if there is a hope for a truly open-minded discussion. I don't mind if you want to have the last word on this, now--I'm not going to comment on it here any more--but if I am ever going to get involved in further discussion, how about another time, another forum? Or wait till Somtow wants to give it headline status.

As I recall, the mythical Cuchulain once slew a do...

2011-11-08T09:25:50.015+07:00

As I recall, the mythical Cuchulain once slew a dog. All I can say is: "You killed it - you eat it."

James, this is all very interesting but I do think...

2011-11-08T09:24:50.337+07:00

James, this is all very interesting but I do think that while there are no hard and fast rules on these matters, netiquette would strongly suggest that comments be about the matters at hand.

I would indeed love to have a different discussion about how Christianity has been distorted by both fundamentalists and anti-religionists, but I'll save that for another time and another blog entry.

The only time I've ever censored any comments was when someone made violent threats or said things which in the current political climate might cause me to be dragged off to the gulag ... apart from that, I am the laxest rule-enforcer I know.

Hi Somtow and Turk, sorry I must have missed the r...

2011-11-08T09:11:37.494+07:00

Hi Somtow and Turk, sorry I must have missed the rules which say that comments had to stick to the subject of the original post?? Why am I not allowed to refer to other subjects? Somtow is quite free to not post my comment if he doesn't wish me to 'stray off topic' but my experience of reading his blog is that he's open minded enough to discuss anything. My previous comment was in that vein. And Somtow, if you read closely I did not accuse you of calling people like me a crackpot - I said that is the trend in the western media.
Turk you do what all evolution and catastrophic climate change apologists do, which is to say that the evidence is overwhelming without actually citing any. The holes in the theory of evolution are never actually addressed - I note that you did not respond to my query regarding the lack of mid-species fossils. The adoption of the theory of evolution had as much to do with the rise of anti-Christian western thought during the 19th century as any major discovery by Darwin. If you don't believe in an all powerful God your mind certainly won't be open to the possibility of creative design.

By the way Buddhism as taught by Buddha himself was not a relgion (rather a philosophy) but Thai Buddhism is certainly a religion because it involves spirit worship, a practice that Buddha said was unhelpful. I agree with Turk that Somtow's post was both informative and well written but I don't see why that means that I can't raise other issues, assuming that it's okay with Somtow the moderator.
By the way the whole Cuchulain99 thing is a mistake - I had to get a wordpress blog id to be able to post a comment and it seems to have used my login automatically as my nickname. My name is James.

A Christian fundamentalist apologist named after C...

2011-11-08T06:01:44.315+07:00

A Christian fundamentalist apologist named after Cuchulain! That's Irish irony for ya. I agree with Somtow about where creationism should be taught . . . in a Christian religion class, if you really want to teach it.
Regarding the theory of evolution, your words "It is not fact because it has not been observed" don't make sense at all. First of all, evolution has always been taught as a scientific theory, not as fact. Secondly, it is a theory which could not have arisen without close and thorough observation. If Darwin had not had "all his ducks in a row," to use a sort of double entendre, he never would have made much of an impression, and the theory of evolution would have been a lot longer in coming. But the evidence that has by now been amassed for this theory is overwhelming, so you cannot correctly say "it has not been observed."
As for the other things you say, I suggest you write your own blog if you'd like to expound on them. They don't have anything at all to do with the excellent points Somtow makes here about the situation here in Thailand. It seems you have completely missed the boat here. Please go back and read again. This is about Thailand, Thai politics, Thai spirituality and spiritualism, etc., not about abortion or adoption, homosexuality, or Christianity.
To you, Somtow, as usual, I thank you for your thoughts.

Indeed, the theory of evolution is a theory, like ...

2011-11-07T17:23:37.164+07:00

Indeed, the theory of evolution is a theory, like the theory of gravity, or the laws of thermodynamics — and may one day be disproved when further evidence shows up, just as relativity has displaced Newtonian physics. Scientific creationism isn't, in the scientific sense, a theory, but a working backwards from faith using selective evidence. There's no reason it shouldn't be taught in school at all, in my opinion, because I don't believe that comparative mythology shouldn't be taught. It should just be taught in its proper classroom, i.e. in religion class. People who use the words "just" and "theory" together don't really understand the difference between a theory and a hypothesis.

I'm not quite sure how this segues into bigotry or abortion. I haven't called you a crackpot. I doubt whether possession of a Ph D is a prime indicator of intelligence or lack of it. Many supremely intelligent people are people of faith. Faith, however, is a gift, Intelligence is not required.

I think that Teilhard de Chardin's solution to the problem of reconciling faith and science is a far more sensible one than to apply the principles of midrash to the available evidence and diginify it with the term "theory" in order to give it a veneer of science.

Somtow, the theory of evolution is just that - a t...

2011-11-07T12:30:41.793+07:00

Somtow, the theory of evolution is just that - a theory. It is not fact because it has not been observed. The theory of creation by an intelligent being is just that - a theory because it has not been observed. If creation science is a myth then so is evolution. Both are extrapolations of observable evidence but neither can be proven. It is a lie to say that there are no scientists who support creation or intelligent design, just as it is a lie to say that there are no scientists who are sceptical of models of climate change that posit that the earth is undergoing catastrophic change caused by human activity. I am not an unintelligent person - I have just finished my PhD (in Thai music as a matter of fact). I readily admit that I believe in Creation because I believe in God, but I would not believe it if I had not also seen considerable evidence that points towards creation rather than evolution. Just one example is the complete absence of missing links between species. If evolution were true there should have been millions of missing link fossils discovered. For every fossil of an identifiable species there should be numerous missing link fossils. The Western media chooses to portray anyone who believes in Creation or are sceptics of catastrophic global warming (of course there is global warming but latest modelling shows less than one degree in the next 100 years and less than 50 cm of sea level rise, which will not alter life as we know it in the slightest) as as crack pot because, overall, they are anti-Christian. This is evident because, in Australia, anyone who disagrees with abortion as contraception (250,000 babies are aborted in Australia each year) or adoption of children by homosexual couples or gay marriage, is also portrayed as a crazy bigot.