Comments on Somtow's World: Don't Shoot the Shyster!

I may end up closing the comments page on this ent...

2010-07-30T21:49:27.264+07:00

I may end up closing the comments page on this entry. Perhaps later on I can have a separate discussion on the semantics of racism.

Today, I received an email from the Secretary-General of ASEAN. He said "Your style reminds me of philosophical debates of the enlightenment...stimulating, entertaining and illuminating at the same time. The part critical to the PM ... is particularly effective and fundamentally correct. It is powerful in that sense."

Not everyone sees my attempt to understand Mr. Amsterdam as fascist demagoguery. Nor do they all see this note as toadying to the government.

Still, those whose opinions are already formed will inevitably see everything I write as a confirmation of those opinions.

James: While I don't agree with you, I want to...

2010-07-30T21:32:40.505+07:00

James: While I don't agree with you, I want to thank you for making substantive statements and raising valid points. Most responses here seem only concerned with red herrings.

Elsewhere in this blog, perhaps a year or so back, you'll find the blog entry where I try to come to terms with my own biases. At the very least, I know they exist, and I'm trying to handle them. I want to say that I do not believe that the rule of the few is axiomatic. My view is somewhat closer to that of the Federalist Papers in that regard.

Thank you for disagreeing so thoughtfully and intelligently.

Dear Jeff: I really appreciate your concern. No ...

2010-07-30T21:09:34.456+07:00

Dear Jeff: I really appreciate your concern. No irony.

Admittedly Wikipedia is not the most reliable source in the world, but this is what it says.

***

The etymology of the word is not generally agreed. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary says it to be based on the German Scheißer (literally, defecator),[1] but the Oxford English Dictionary describes it as "of obscure origin", possibly deriving from a historical sense of "shy" meaning disreputable.[2] Various false etymologies have proposed an anti-Semitic origin, and some people continue to regard the word as referring particularly to Jews or Jewish lawyers.

***
in other words, just as I have always gathered in over five decades of living (a) among lawyers and (b) among Jews and (c) among speakers of standard American slang, the idea of the word being fundamentally anti-Semitic is not a standard usage.

Here's what Mr. Horn, who is Jewish, and an editor/writer, and a speaker of standard American, wrote to me:

****
I tried to post a comment on your blog but don't seem to be able. maybe there is some sign up process i'm not seeing.

In any case, what I wanted to post, and let you know, is that I'm Jewish, and I don't regard your use of the word shyster as anti-semitic at all.

*****

Jeff, I appreciate your concern about how I might look, but the thing is, I'm NOT using the "but some of my best friends are Jewish" defense. I know what to say at a shabbes, can understand some Yiddish if spoken nice and slowly, and am frequently the only shegetz at a bar mitzvah. I was recently the only non-Jew to be invited to contribute to a fantasy anthology of kabbalistic stories. I am extremely, extremely confident that I'm not an anti-Semite. Only someone unfamiliar with my writings and my ardent championship of the music of Jewish composers would make such an accusation.

Somtow, I'm often quite supportive of what yo...

2010-07-30T19:39:35.403+07:00

Somtow,

I'm often quite supportive of what you've written in the past but I think "Anonymous" has a point.

The term "shyster" is usually used for Jewish lawyers only. This is confirmed on several websites now least the Racial Slur Database (under a different spelling) - http://www.rsdb.org/search?q=jews.

I think you've made yourself look quite bad here.

Best wishes

Jeff French (Pattaya)

Hi, I wrote the comment that someone pasted at 3...

2010-07-30T18:07:45.529+07:00

Hi,

I wrote the comment that someone pasted at 3:31 - thanks for saying it's the best response but I hadn't finished it. I actually deleted it from twitter because I didn't think it was very good! Anyway, I don't think this piece is "garbage" but I do think it's guilty of what it accuses others of being guilty of. Namely being one sided and loose with the facts - and sinking into all too easy hyperbole. Though I'm not sure Somtow wasn't intentionally using highly charged emotive language to highlight Amsterdam's use of such? Might've just been a rhetorical ploy.

Anyway, it's natural to feel emotional about a cause you believe in very strongly. Taking sides and robustly expressing what you believe in is important. But people should remember that their world view and the importance of things within it is very likely to be shaped to an extent by the position they've taken. It's up to cool headed outsiders to sift reality from fiction - which is why the international press is so important. I feel that Somtow isn't capable of speaking from "outside" his own interests (class interests as some people call them) and biases - not capable because he doesn't appear to think he's biased. He accuses Amsterdam of bias - and any outsider would know he's paid to be biased, not like he makes a secret of being engaged by Thaksin - yet his narrative (which nevertheless a half-truth of its own) is as one-sided as Amsterdam's.

I'd also suppose that though Somtow thinks Amsterdam's work is in the interests of Thaksin only and against Thailand, a number of Thais feel that he's working in their interests too and the paper is a good representation of how they see things. Perhaps this is a good a reason as any to take a serious look at the paper and refute it where it's demonstrably false. Of course their best argument at the moment is that Robert Amsterdam is a farang. So perhaps they'd better ignore it...

See, you come back to Somtow's bias. I think Somtow takes it axiomatically that a select few know what's better for Thailand and have more of a right to speak for it and decide its future than the majority. Somtow obviously thinks the coup was in the interests of Thailand - whereas the millions of Thais who voted for Thaksin in his landslide election victory surely disagree... and what right do unelected bodies - guilty of crimes and corruption at least equal to that of Thaksin - have to overrule the electorate? Back to square one :P

This line of defence that "I have some Jewish...

2010-07-30T17:52:57.178+07:00

This line of defence that "I have some Jewish friends" is so weak.

I'm almost expecting you to dig up some random quote by some 18th Century literary figure as "evidence" - not sure of what though.

Maybe your pretensions to verbosity and intellectually inadequacy?

5:14 - Dear Mr/Ms Offended One: The word "shy...

2010-07-30T17:41:25.467+07:00

5:14 - Dear Mr/Ms Offended One: The word "shyster" is not a racial slur. If I had intended a racial slur, I would have used one. Words like kike, yid, hebe, etc. are racial slurs. You may have noticed that I did not elect to use any of those words.

The word "shyster" means "a crooked lawyer or politician". Your point about non-Chinese not thinking "chink" is racist is irrelevant. Mr Horn (above) and other Jews who have written in my support are NOT non-Jews. They are Jews who happen to be familiar with the English language and who happen to know the meaning of this word.

No, I don't get to decide whether it's offensive. You have been offended. I didn't decide that.

Conversely, you do not get to decide what this word means. Its meaning, as given in Webster's dictionary, quoted above, does not appear to include a reference to Jews.

I doubt that my removing the word will make you stop being offended. My very existence seems to offend you, as previous anonymous posts in your exact style and with your distinctive choice of insults would seem to indicate.

I think the best way for you to cease to be offended is probably to stop reading this blog. You are a free person. You do have that option. I suggest that you exercise it.

2010-07-30T17:40:11.225+07:00

This comment has been removed by the author.

Your definition of what constitutes a racial slur ...

2010-07-30T17:14:20.291+07:00

Your definition of what constitutes a racial slur is pretty much the same given out by racists everywhere.

I know of plenty of non-Chinese or Asian people who think "Chink" is not racist.

I also know of plenty of non-Pakistani people who think "Paki" is not racist.

However, I do know plenty of Chinese/Asians who think Chink is highly offensive and plenty of Pakistanis who think Paki is a nasty slur.

You see, on this occasion (I know it's difficult for you to get your head around the idea that other people may base their interpretations on troublesome things like facts), you don't actually get decide whether the use of "shyster" is offensive.

I find it offensive.

You are, in this context and given Mr. Amsterdam's racial background, using it as a racial slur.

If you don't remove it I will consider you an anti-semite.

And, to be quite honest, I don't care at all what Isaac Asimov said.

Go and name drop with your trashy hi-so pals in Bangkok - it will appeal to their tastes more.

3:58 - Yes, I did. And yes, I forgot who the inte...

2010-07-30T16:21:22.510+07:00

3:58 - Yes, I did. And yes, I forgot who the interviewer was. and I've already made the correction and thanked the person who pointed it out. I'm always happy to correct such errors.

3:34 - one of the anonymous "private supporters" has posted right above you, with his real name. At least one other, also with real name, may be seen to have commented on my Facebook page. A perfectly good word with a perfectly clear meaning that can refer to a person of any ethnicity doesn't become a racial slur just because a person of that race says it is. It has to be generally agreed that it is a slur first. In the case of this word, there is no such agreement. I'm sorry you've taken offense, but you'll just have to take my word for it that none was meant. What does a dumb shegetz have to do to prove it? Why don't you invite me to shabbes and I'll do a perfect recitation of the blessing over the bread? No less a figure than Isaac Asimov once told me that I'm "really" a Jew underneath!

One thing I know from life is that when someone ta...

2010-07-30T16:11:40.867+07:00

One thing I know from life is that when someone talks too much, they have something to hide. That goes to Amsterdam and you, Somtow. Don't treat everyone as a buffalo. Most Thais have a pretty good understanding of the situation.

Did you actually watch Hard Talk? You've got ...

2010-07-30T15:58:03.555+07:00

Did you actually watch Hard Talk?

You've got the presenter wrong and the channel.

Maybe you just dreamt you watched it while you were wet-dreaming of the army staging another coup?

I'm Jewish and find the use of "shyster&q...

2010-07-30T15:34:24.254+07:00

I'm Jewish and find the use of "shyster" in connection with a Jewish lawyer incredibly offensive.

Your offhand use of racial slurs to make your point marks you out as either a) an anti-semite b) an idiot.

And why do you always seem to have all these private supporters who seem to go missing in public?

It chimes perfectly with the "evidence" you have but never reveal.

Your musings are just that - they should not be taken seriously by anyone seriously engaged with helping resolve Thailand's problems.

Best response to Somtow's garbage is here - ...

2010-07-30T15:31:18.536+07:00

Best response to Somtow's garbage is here -

"@Somtow's lastest -- I might've misread his piece and he might've been employing deliberate irony by calling Thaksin a "slayer of Muslims" & at the same time accusing Amsterdam of throwing words like "massacre" around too easily...

First why should we ignore Amsterdam's piece just because it serves an agenda? Shouldn't you, then, also ignore everything that comes out of Abhisit, Suthep or Panitan's mouth since they too have little interest in anything but their self-serving agenda? Especially not truth. Given they're, after all, the ones that maintain that soldiers didn't shoot anyone :P Somtow suggests that Amsterdam's piece serves an anti-Thailand agenda; isn't Somtow here dangerously equating the current government with the state? Or perhaps he wants to tell us something else? If we're supposed to read between the lines.

"...when it permitted the torture and slaying of Muslims in the South of Thailand, these were crimes against Thailand. He has not yet been convicted of these latter crimes, but by painting Abhisit as a vicious murderer, Mr. Amsterdam is launching a preemptive strike against against the bringing of such charges against Mr. Thaksin."

Somtow believes Thaksin employed Amsterdam to paint Abhisit as a murderer to somehow protect him from convictions for similar (or for Somtow, worse) human rights abuses. Does Somtow actually believe that Thaksin is afraid he might be found guilty of such abuses (i.e. slaying Muslims and drug dealers) when all of this has already been investigated? War on drugs was investigated by a panel set up by the junta - and the figure of "over two thousand" that Somtow is using is wrong. I don't like defending Thaksin but as a stickler for objective facts, and not misleading hyperbole, I'm duty bound to point this out :P

Somtow also says Thaksin was convicted for stealing from Thailand. Isn't he actually convicted for "helping" his wife to buy land at above market price? To call it "stealing" seems a little misleading... not to say Thaksin wasn't corrupt, he was. But what he's been actually convicted of doesn't seem much like stealing from the country to me. Shouldn't he point out, in the interests of objectivity, that it's pretty standard for those in the political class or high-rank military to get away with these things? Somtow makes Thaksin sound like a singular evil. His piece serves the defense of a government whose deputy PM is renowned for infamous land dealings, after all.

So Abhisit presumably permitted the torture of thousands of Hmong refugees and the torture and "slaying" of hundreds of Rohingya? But perhaps these aren't crimes against Thailand? Because after all the subjects in question are not Thai. So maybe they don't count.

Well, Somtow is basically right but so is Amsterdam. We know Amsterdam is a biased peddler of half truth as he's paid to be so. But what about Somtow, it seems he cannot be objective as he's incapable of examining his own biases (as shown in previous pieces... he tried, though, he tried).

Obviously Somtow's polemic is against Amsterdam and his client, so I don't expect him to condemn anyone else. But the ignorant observer reading his piece might think the military are basically good guys that resorted to a coup to save Thailand from a Muslim slaughtering murderer that did nothing but rob the country... which isn't even half the truth.

Maybe Somtow intends that we read Amsterdam's paper then his piece, and by putting both together we'll have a good picture of the truth? Possible. If you're going to try to be objective, you'd have to cast a plague on both the government and Thaksin's houses... and a few more houses too :P "

I don't understand why people keep mentioning ...

2010-07-30T15:20:30.931+07:00

I don't understand why people keep mentioning Tel Aviv and the Israeli Embassy. My post was not in Hebrew, and I've already quoted the dictionary definition of this English-language word. So far I haven't had any New York rabbis taking offense, but instead I've received three emails from English-speaking Jews defending my use of the word and stating that they do not consider it a racial slur. One such email comes from an editor at TIME magazine, who probably speaks English well enough to know a slur from a hole in the ground. The Wikipedia article on this word says that "some people" believe it refers to Jewish lawyers, but that is certainly neither its dictionary definition nor the usage to which I put it.

Somtow and Robert should meet. They are the perfec...

2010-07-30T14:55:31.720+07:00

Somtow and Robert should meet. They are the perfect couple, because they are both distorting apologists, just that they do their jobs from different directions. But as accomplished professionals in this business, they should get along really well. In fact, Somtow should also meet up with Thaksin, because both S. and T. think that they are the centre of the world (at least the small Thai world anyway). Thinking that Somtow makes the Partitur of Mahler's 3 look brownish makes me sick...

I wonder what the Israeli embassy would make of So...

2010-07-30T14:21:57.561+07:00

I wonder what the Israeli embassy would make of Somtow's use of shyster?

Tell you what, Somtow, why don't you go to Tel...

2010-07-30T14:18:16.062+07:00

Tell you what, Somtow, why don't you go to Tel Aviv and start calling people "Shyster".

I'm pretty certain you'll get a reaction. Would be interesting to watch. As for the veracity of racial slurs, surely it's those who are being slurred that get to decide?

But I digress...

You've helped the Red Shirts more than Robert Amsterdam? Don't they get to decide that?

You're not one of those over-entitled, over-privileged types who believe in charity but not any real and meaningful change in social conditions are you?

The Red Shirts have been pretty clear about the kind of change they want - can't they decide what kind of help they want?

Onto your posting - it's nothing more than your subjective viewpoint and offers no factual or conclusive evidence other than the certainty of your opinion.

That's it.

You don't like lawyers. Especially Jewish ones.

But you do like coups and you seem to hate democracy.

One final point - why don't you post in Thai? I've heard you can barely write in the language. At least Robert Amsterdam has a Thai language blog.

With all my respect, it's very grateful, read...

2010-07-30T14:02:26.311+07:00

With all my respect,
it's very grateful, reading your article.

Thanks for making this meaningful article, Sir.
Sincerely,

@ the poster who accused Khun Somtow of using an a...

2010-07-30T12:18:01.610+07:00

@ the poster who accused Khun Somtow of using an anti-semitic slur. I'm Jewish and I don't regard the term or Khun Somtow as anti-Semitic.

Here's a thought: Why don't YOU Mr. Anonymous, focus on helping the victims of the recent violence before spending your time reading blogs, criticizing the bloggers and demanding they do something that you are not doing yourself.

I guess everyone has to solve all the world's problems before they can have an opinion and comment on them. Get real and grow up.

@ the first poster who accused Khun Somtow of usin...

2010-07-30T12:04:41.766+07:00

@ the first poster who accused Khun Somtow of using an anti-semitic slur. I'm Jewish and I don't regard the term or Khun Somtow as anti-Semitic.

Here's a thought: Why don't YOU Mr. Anonymous, focus on helping the victims of the recent violence before spending your time reading blogs, criticizing the bloggers and demanding they do something that you are not doing yourself.

I guess everyone has to solve all the world's problems before they can have an opinion and comment on them. Get real and grow up.

Not meaning to nitpick (but obviously I am) the in...

2010-07-30T11:19:59.424+07:00

Not meaning to nitpick (but obviously I am) the interview with on Hard Talk was with Zeinab Bedawi

Apart from that thanks for not letting this shrill occupy the airspace with his half truths and convenient skewed viewpoint on things

Thanks for this Great article.Mr.Amsterdam is a Sh...

2010-07-30T10:55:46.217+07:00

Thanks for this Great article.Mr.Amsterdam is a Shyster.I totally agree with this word.

Thanks again Mr.Somtow.

How many people really know the truth and look far...

2010-07-30T10:24:44.859+07:00

How many people really know the truth and look far beyond its cover? If it could happened in Thailand, it could happen anywhere in the whole world. Have anyone forgot about September 11, 2001? The feeling before and the feeling after September 11.

A greedy man will never stop until he/she got all.

12:30 - ah, but I didn't inhale.

2010-07-30T09:02:52.460+07:00

12:30 - ah, but I didn't inhale.